This is a short steep climb and is one of the more difficult lines in the Delta River area.
FA:
Anchor/Descent: Alder bushes exist for a rappel.
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11 responses to “The Curtain”
My climbing partner and I agreed that this information is somewhat of a sandbag as we stood at the base of a nearly 20 meter vertical free standing curtain of ice. Probably more like WI4+
Calling this WI3 is one of the more preposterous sandbags I have ever encountered. It is WI4+ minimum, fully vertical for more than 30 ft with no rests.
This is a great discussion for a route not well known by many. We appreciate your comments.
The rating was created based on feedback relayed to us by others. We rely on our users, like yourself, to gain a consensus on our descriptions. We work to publish information that is the most widely accepted.
We hope no one thinks that under rating a climb is intended to be a sandbag by AIC. As we have always stated, our mission is to include information from our users so that we can make sound decisions in the backcountry. We are still committed to continue this effort.
In our Ice Climb Ratings page, we have included descriptions on difficulty that are based on a consensus of other ice climbing published resources.
“WI4 – Good protection is still available on these routes but the route approaches vertical with fewer rests.”
Clearly, assigning this grade to a route is somewhat subjective. But, if this route includes a 30 foot vertical pillar, it is likely worthy of a more difficult rating as you suggest. Given it is not a full pitch of water ice, it would seem reasonable to give this a flat rating of WI4. A review of other WI4+ routes on AIC might indicate this route is not of comparable difficulty. Again, we work to provide consistency based on consensus.
We encourage any others to give their feedback as well.
I would agree that this climb is at least a WI4+. I found this route to be more difficult than other routes AIC has graded as WI4. As stated by other climbers, the freestanding pillar was fully vertical with no rests.
Thank you to the admins for maintaining AIC, it is a great resource.
The ratings of the Delta River region ice are internally consistent. This route has been soloed numerous times and was given a 3 because it is standard to climb the route only placing three screws due to its shortness and nice ledge after the steep part. Pure ice routes in the area were graded based on the number of screws placed during their first “recorded” ascents.
As the local guidebooks says, if a route is to hard for you, don’t knock the rating…just move onto a different climb.
Ok, Hebrew Hammer, I went and found another climb, I think you named it Hanging Chad? Thought it was a little soft for WI6 and we actually topped it out. You know what they say about opinions though…
Amphoral interior Ice is that way- the 2nd ascent of forgiveness was much more forgiving
: but calling me an ahole is very friendly indeed especially after I distributed photos of the hanging chad last fall for community encouragement >20 yrs after its naning. But at least now I know what u are.
umm Mr. Hammer in Ethan’s defense you did sort’ve call us bitches in your initial remark. Also, it seems like your grading scale is not the one being debated above. WI grades are not based on the FKAs number of screws placed which on a side note your scale is totally not subjective at all. Love your old guide for all its worth though.
I don’t believe I called you any names. In fact I have tremendous respect for you and your climbing. So much so I have read nearly every journal entry you have written as well as “Hitchhiking up Denali”. Your geology career speaks for itself. I simply can’t resist some good old internet banter. I would love to pick your brain about climbing objective sometime so I hope I haven’t burnt that bridge…
I did not call any one anything. Ice grades are very problematic because its the length of vertical that matters, not the presence or absence of vert. This is very different than a rock scale, as we know, which is often based on the hardest single move. Hence, in an area with lots of short climbs, the ‘Valdez system” should be applied. Furthermore, what is important for a climbing area is consistency between grades.
This keeps folks safe and entertained.
The number of screws placed, is as sensible as any rating system and easy to track…well at least at the time- 30 years later? I got no idea-what does the bookie say? Always take life notes.
All good. Guess I reacted strongly cause no one has ever called me soft outside of my stripping stints 🙂
And yeah contact me whenever
north face of Nenana has an amazing looking ice up slot once ya get into it.
My climbing partner and I agreed that this information is somewhat of a sandbag as we stood at the base of a nearly 20 meter vertical free standing curtain of ice. Probably more like WI4+
Calling this WI3 is one of the more preposterous sandbags I have ever encountered. It is WI4+ minimum, fully vertical for more than 30 ft with no rests.
This is a great discussion for a route not well known by many. We appreciate your comments.
The rating was created based on feedback relayed to us by others. We rely on our users, like yourself, to gain a consensus on our descriptions. We work to publish information that is the most widely accepted.
We hope no one thinks that under rating a climb is intended to be a sandbag by AIC. As we have always stated, our mission is to include information from our users so that we can make sound decisions in the backcountry. We are still committed to continue this effort.
In our Ice Climb Ratings page, we have included descriptions on difficulty that are based on a consensus of other ice climbing published resources.
“WI4 – Good protection is still available on these routes but the route approaches vertical with fewer rests.”
Clearly, assigning this grade to a route is somewhat subjective. But, if this route includes a 30 foot vertical pillar, it is likely worthy of a more difficult rating as you suggest. Given it is not a full pitch of water ice, it would seem reasonable to give this a flat rating of WI4. A review of other WI4+ routes on AIC might indicate this route is not of comparable difficulty. Again, we work to provide consistency based on consensus.
We encourage any others to give their feedback as well.
I would agree that this climb is at least a WI4+. I found this route to be more difficult than other routes AIC has graded as WI4. As stated by other climbers, the freestanding pillar was fully vertical with no rests.
Thank you to the admins for maintaining AIC, it is a great resource.
Seems to be more of a consensus here. Rating will be adjusted. Thanks for the feedback.
I beg to differ.
The ratings of the Delta River region ice are internally consistent. This route has been soloed numerous times and was given a 3 because it is standard to climb the route only placing three screws due to its shortness and nice ledge after the steep part. Pure ice routes in the area were graded based on the number of screws placed during their first “recorded” ascents.
As the local guidebooks says, if a route is to hard for you, don’t knock the rating…just move onto a different climb.
Ok, Hebrew Hammer, I went and found another climb, I think you named it Hanging Chad? Thought it was a little soft for WI6 and we actually topped it out. You know what they say about opinions though…
Amphoral interior Ice is that way- the 2nd ascent of forgiveness was much more forgiving
: but calling me an ahole is very friendly indeed especially after I distributed photos of the hanging chad last fall for community encouragement >20 yrs after its naning. But at least now I know what u are.
umm Mr. Hammer in Ethan’s defense you did sort’ve call us bitches in your initial remark. Also, it seems like your grading scale is not the one being debated above. WI grades are not based on the FKAs number of screws placed which on a side note your scale is totally not subjective at all. Love your old guide for all its worth though.
I don’t believe I called you any names. In fact I have tremendous respect for you and your climbing. So much so I have read nearly every journal entry you have written as well as “Hitchhiking up Denali”. Your geology career speaks for itself. I simply can’t resist some good old internet banter. I would love to pick your brain about climbing objective sometime so I hope I haven’t burnt that bridge…
I did not call any one anything. Ice grades are very problematic because its the length of vertical that matters, not the presence or absence of vert. This is very different than a rock scale, as we know, which is often based on the hardest single move. Hence, in an area with lots of short climbs, the ‘Valdez system” should be applied. Furthermore, what is important for a climbing area is consistency between grades.
This keeps folks safe and entertained.
The number of screws placed, is as sensible as any rating system and easy to track…well at least at the time- 30 years later? I got no idea-what does the bookie say? Always take life notes.
All good. Guess I reacted strongly cause no one has ever called me soft outside of my stripping stints 🙂
And yeah contact me whenever
north face of Nenana has an amazing looking ice up slot once ya get into it.
jeffapplebenowitz@gmail.com